Re: cowardly propaganda

[Ashish Hanwadikar <ashish_hanwadikar@yahoo.com>]

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IPI_Marker

Hi Srinupi,
> Ashish is talking too much....
Maybe I am. Does it matter? Instead of focussing your energy on my
"imagination" and "talking too much" it will good for this debate if
you stick to the point. Let me know exactly where my analysis is wrong.
I am participating in this debate to learn things myself. I do not
believe in just repeating the propaganda irrespective of whether it is
true or not!
Fact that you are focussing too much on me rather than my arguments
shows that you have ran out of the arguments. Don't give up so easily.
You have not at all responded to my charge that Afghanistani people
focussed their attention on religion rather than development. Also, you
did not respond to role of India, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia in
Afghanistan. You had nothing to comment on Madrasaas which exported
religious fundamentalism and terrorism to outside world. None of this
Madrassas were financed by Western countries.
And please when you respond to this email do not comment on me! Because
if you do I will simply ignore you now on. I do not have time to waste
for this nonsense.
Regards,
Ashish

--- srinupi@yahoo.com wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate
> it!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> IPI_Marker
>
> Ashish is talking too much....
>
> Taliban came to power in Afghanistan because of outside support.  The
> country became a battleground
> for foreign nations which altered its power structure such that it
> unraveled its social fabric and
> destroyed the family unit.
>
> - Srinu
>
>
> > Hi Srinupi,
> >           Thanks for the compliments! If you look at my point
> carefully
> > you will understand that Guns are not responsible but human beings
> are!
> > Instead of blaming Guns for Afghanistan's problem it will be really
> > useful to find out about the beliefs of Afghanistan's people and
> also
> > those people who supplied the Guns. I have a feeling that people of
> > Afghanistan are so illiterate and very coward who did nothing to
> > prevent some ambitious people from taking over the whole country.
> Local
> > warlords were so busy fighting among themselves that when Taliban
> > actually captured the whole of Afghanistan people actually
> celebrated
> > return of stability.
> >
> > > Afghanistan never had the chance to develop its institutions and
> > > instead
> > > the barrel of the gun quelled any aspirations of its native
> > > population
> > > and eventually led to an unstable power structure which destroyed
> its
> > > social fabric.
> >
> > What do you mean Afghanistan never had a chance to develop its
> > institutions? As far as I know Afghanistan has been in existence
> since
> > couple of thousand years. You mean so many years are not
> sufficient!
> > Poor Afghanistani people! So many outsiders interfered in their
> country
> > they never really had any real chances! Didn't they? Boy, they
> surely
> > had lot of opportunities to develop Madrassas which exported
> terrorism!
> >
> > > Where did the tanks and missiles come from?
> > > Certainly
> > > the Afghans don't have the technology to produce them on their
> own!
> > > Had
> > > Afghanistan developed these weapons on its own, its institutions
> > > would
> > > have been able to handle them better - and this is the essense of
> my
> > > point!
> >
> > Where did all those Madrassas came from? Certainly, US, Britain and
> > other usual suspects didnt't fund those religious (?) institutions.
> > Then who funded and developed those institutions? Do names like
> > Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and so on ring any bells? You are trying to
> find
> > who to blame for destruction of social fabric of Afghanistan. First
> > thing I would do in such a case is to look for beliefs of the
> people,
> > their attitude to others etc. Guns and other physical objects are
> just
> > means to achieve (and increase your productivity in killing others
> and
> > defending yourself) your ends. They cannot influence your goals and
> > beliefs. There are lots of societies in which large amounts of
> firearms
> > are (were) present. Still those societies did not degenerate into
> > Afghanistan. If you look at pre-British India there were no big
> guns
> > there. But still lots of infighting was going on making the life of
> > ordinary Indians a hell! It was probably our great culture and
> strong
> > urge in freedom and peace brought to the fore by Gandhi which was
> > responsible for our Independence and prosperity. To me it looks
> like
> > lots of Afghanistani people are ready to die in name of defending
> their
> > religion rather than achieving any real economic progress. This is
> the
> > main reason for destruction of their social fabric (if there was
> indeed
> > one before!). Guns or no Guns they would screwd themselves anyway.
> Guns
> > simply acted as catalyst.
> >
> > By the way when you blame US, Britain for causing trouble in
> > Afghanistan why not examine role of India and our darling Russia in
> the
> > whole process also. When Russia attacked Afghanistan wasn't
> > peace-loving, non-aligned India supposed to protest against Russia?
> > What happened to Nehru's usual eloquence then which was so such on
> > display when Britain captured Suez Canal in 1956?
> >
> > Imagine the other scenario! Imagine for a moment that Russia would
> have
> > captured Afghanistan! Would it have been good for the World, for
> India?
> > I do not like many foriegn policy decisions of US, Britain.
> However, I
> > do want to credit them with rescuing the world from Communism and
> > Fascism. I shudder to think what would have happened if people like
> > Hitler and Stalin were not stopped in their march by US and its
> allies.
> > This credit is due even if US and Britain acted in their self
> interest.
> >
> > Supplying guns to the Afghanistani terrorists in order to fight
> with
> > Russians may look like a very short term policy in retrospect. But
> > would you take the trouble to suggest an alternative policy for the
> US
> > and Britain against Russia in Afghanistan (with the full benefit of
> > retrospect with you)?
> >
> > Blaming those who are powerful and successful without suggesting
> some
> > alternative actions and full analysis shows signs of diffidence and
> > frustration!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ashish
> >
> > --- srinupi@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and
> propagate
> > > it!
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > IPI_Marker
> > >
> > > You certainly have a good imagination....see if you can stretch
> it
> > > enough to understand exactly what I said which is: the guns from
> > > foreign
> > > shores altered the power structure within Afghanistan which, if
> left
> > > alone, might have developed differently.  In essence, the guns
> from
> > > the
> > > military powers of the world were used to silence local interests
> and
> > > to
> > > destroy the country's social fabric.  What is
> > > cowardly about this is that these same countries which supplied
> arms
> > > before are now criticizing various factions for mistreating the
> > > Afghani
> > > people as if totally masking the root cause for all these
> oppressions
> > > and atrocities!!
> > >
> > > Afghanistan never had the chance to develop its institutions and
> > > instead
> > > the barrel of the gun quelled any aspirations of its native
> > > population
> > > and eventually led to an unstable power structure which destroyed
> its
> > > social fabric.  Where did the tanks and missiles come from?
> > > Certainly
> > > the Afghans don't have the technology to produce them on their
> own!
> > > Had
> > > Afghanistan developed these weapons on its own, its institutions
> > > would
> > > have been able to handle them better - and this is the essense of
> my
> > > point!
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- srinupi@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > The guns from US, Britain, and Russia destroyed the
> > > > > family structure in Afghanistan and unraveled its
> > > > > social fabric.  And now these nations are up to their
> > > > > old tricks to hide this fact in Afghanistan!!
> > > >
> > > > This is a very very interesting argument. How can inanimate
> object
> > > like
> > > > Guns destroy somebody? Before this I had always assumed that in
> > > order
> > > > for the Gun to kill or injure anybody somebody has to pull its
> > > trigger.
> > > > Well looks like here Srinupi is accusing Guns of destroying
> social
> > > > fabric and family structure (let alone killing or injuring


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