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RE: On Kashmir solution..
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Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
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Hi Karthik, my comments are marked with my name, Yesho.
regards,
Yesho.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ramachan [SMTP:ramachan@grinnell.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 8:53 PM
> To: debate@indiapolicy.org
> Subject: RE: On Kashmir solution..
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for your comments. I agree that Article 370 was partially
> introduced
> to allay the fears of the international community. However, it seems highly
> unlikely that there's going to be even a trickle, much less a flood, of
> investment from non-Kashmiri indians if Article 370 is eliminated, simply
> because of the security threat.
[Yesho] Certainly, it will happen only slowly. But, it will surely
happen, and it will make a clear difference, both economically and
politically.
> Eliminating Article 370 would raise some difficult questions:
>
> 1. To what extent would investment be allowed? Seeing that internationally
> Kashmir is still disputed territory, would it be right to allow
non-Kashmiri
> indians to take advantage of the Kashmiri economy at the expense of the
> KAshmiris?
[Yesho] Taking advantage? How can free trade be considered 'taking
advantage of the Kashmiri economy at the expense of Kashmiris'? One
can use the same argument for not allowing non-Telugu investment into
Andhra Pradesh. And, the reason for removal of article 370 is far more
compelling than just economics! How about fairness? Today, a foreigner
can buy land in Bangalore. But, an Indian cannot buy land in Kashmir!
> For all practical purposes, we must accept that the money is going to come
> from other parts of the country, and the greater part of the money is not
> going to go to the Kashmiris.
[Yesho] If it were more general, you would be making an anti-free trade
argument! If I build a house (never mind a factory) in Kashmir, who will
the labourers be, you think? Who will most of the employees be? Where
will
the employees live? Whom will they pay rent? Whose fields and hotels
will
feed those employees?
> 2. If indeed there is disillusionment with the indian govt., and by
> extension,
> to indians in general, how will such investment be accepted in the valley?
[Yesho] Don't worry about this one! Everyone needs money to feed their
wives and children. Remember Pakistan, that implacably hostile country?
Well, they smuggle in Indian tires. why? - because they are a bargain!
That is all there is to people.
> 3. Finally, is Article 370 the root cause of kashmir's underdevelopment?
Will
> its elimination really bring the desired effect?
[Yesho] My entire argument so far is that it will. But, suppose it
doesn't. There is still the issue of discrimination.
There have been arguments on this site earlier about the Uniform Civil
Code and the No-Reservation issue. One of the arguments against them is
that they might not be the ROOT CAUSE of under-development.
So what? The fact is that IT IS UNFAIR. Why should anyone be
discriminated
against even if that doesn't affect the country's progress?
> Look forward to hearing your thoughts.
>
> Kartik Ramachandran
> >Your comment:
> >> It is still my view that Article 370 has a particular purpose
> >
> >What purpose does it have any more? I think, even during Nehru's
> >time, it was a pretty misplaced proposal. It could have served
> >only to calm the fears of the UN General Assembly. I believe
> >it was only a gratuitous concession. Nobody was helped by it.
> >
> >> To do away with Article 370 would exacerbate the conflict in the valley.
> >
> > I don't see how the conflict would be 'exacerbated' any more than it
> > already is. In any case, it should be a matter of principle. India should
> > be willing to face conflict than discriminate among its citizens.
> >
> >> it would be catastrophic to do so any time in the future.
> >
> > We can hardly remove it from our past! :-) I think words like
> 'catastrophic'
> > are really unwarranted. Article 370 would bring progress to Kashmir. I
> think
> > most of its politicians and vested interests would certainly find
progress
> > catastrophic.
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This is the National Debate on System Reform. debate@indiapolicy.org
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This is the National Debate on System Reform. debate@indiapolicy.org
Rules, Procedures, Archives: ../debate/
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Only idiots believe that India is poor. The question is why we have so many poor people in India, when we are such a a wealthy country. The answer is that for centuries we rich people have hammered the majority of the population into such subservience that we do not benefit from their talents and they do not benefit from the riches of the country. I happened to come across the following website today while planning some travel: http://www.indiatravelog.com/impressions/people11-caste.html F A C E S O F I N D I A Caste Dilemmas by Gunashekar I spent 4 hours relaxing under a tree at Mahatma Gandhi's Ashram in Ahmedabad on the banks of the Sabarmathi River. I must have visited Ahmedabad a hundred times before but I never took time or interest to visit the Mahatma's Ashram before. While I was sitting there , I recollected a conversation I had with Kadiresan , Secretary of COODU a voluntary agency in Coimbatore just a few days back. Somebody had mentioned that Coimbatore is one district which had never witnessed communal or caste clashes before the unfortunate blasts. Kadiresan narrated his experience in the villages of the district in response. He had been conducting village meetings for the Watershed Development Programmes. Let me try and narrate what he said : All communities participated at our meetings. For the first few meetings I did not realize that the Scheduled castes would not enter the building when the meeting was conducted indoors in marriage halls. They would sit on the ground outside. It was only when we organized a particular meeting in a very large hall, I realized that over half the chairs were empty but people were sitting outside. It took a while for me (a local!) to understand that since they were scheduled caste they were sitting outside. The upper castes and the elders of the village did not seem to object when I attempted to pull them inside the hall. Yet hey refused to come. So I had to sit outside with them and explain the whole subject to them. Their response was [-in Tamil] "Sami yellaam yenna solrangalo adhuve yengalukku saringo" (which roughly translates to , "whatever the respectable folks say that is ok forus") We started serving food at the end of the meetings. Even there I had to force the scheluled castes to participate. However no amount of persuasion would make them sit with the others. They would always eat after all the upper castes had finished . In one village we were serving food on banana leaves and in the first batch , the upper castes had finished eating . I found that nobody started serving the second batch. Only the scheduled castes and some tribals were sitting in the second batch . I had to start serving food myself before the others slowly started serving them. I noticed that there were no glasses, though the earlier batch had water served in stainless steel glasses. When I asked for the glasses , I was told that the secretary of the Hall had locked up the glasses and left the venue. In another village , I managed to seat the scheduled caste people along with the others. I went around the dining hall trying to make people relax and eat freely. I noticed heads bent and bodies stiff among members of both the communities. Obviously nobody was enjoying their food. I realized that I was not the first person to try to change things. Such common feasts to make the castes mingle were organized before. Whatever you did the sheduled castes would behave differently in some manner , either by washing their hands separately or by the way they respectfully removed their own used leaves and run outside the hall with their bodies bent and the leaf hidden. Mr. Kadiresan narrated this to tell us why there were no caste clashes in Coimbatore villages. According to him, it was because the scheduled castes were careful not to offend the upper castes. On the other hand, he reiterated that in the Southern districts of Tamil Nadu, the scheduled casted were getting bolder and the upper castes were not as rich and powerful, so their superiority was being challenged. This according to Kadiresan was the major reason for Coimbatore villages being peaceful. Sitting on the banks of the Sabarmati River where the Mahatma had sat and held prayermeetings years before, I was filled with an acute sense of sadness.
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