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Re: Foreign born Indian children and the law
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Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
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The advice you have received is incorrect. You as the parents are
fully
responsible for the minor children. You obtained US passports for
them,
and you can return them while they are minors. The US Government cannot
say
anything about that (even though minor officials and lawyers will make
out
differently). Your children are not responsible for either getting the
citizenship or returning it while they are children. When they grow up
they will have the right to exercise the citizenship of the United
States
ius soli if they so choose.
Subroto Roy.
-----Original Message-----
From: SR C <src_us@yahoo.com>
To: debate@indiapolicy.org <debate@indiapolicy.org>
Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Foreign born Indian children and the law
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>Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Dr. Roy,
>
>Thanks very much for your insight. This is the first opinion I have
>heard from the Indian camp. I have attached below email from Mr. Rich
>Wales on the same subject. His opinion is that US law has no provision
>for minor children to renounce US citizenship. Also it is criminal for
>US born kids to enter USA on non-US passport. So technically, it may
>not be possible for US born minor kids to assume the rights of an
>Indian citizen.
>
>In my opinion, "dual citizenship" bar is applicable only for adults
>(and their minor dependents) who are citizens of another country. We
>are Indian citizens and our minor kids should be too by default,
>irrespective of their birth place or their eligibility to acquire
>foreign citizenship. This issue is different from that of the NRI's
>lobbying to retain the Indian citizenship that they previously
>renounced voluntarily. Is there anyone out there who will support me ?.
>How do I get the attention of the law maker ?.
>
>thanks,
>
>Sudhir Raman
>
>**** message from Mr. Rich Wales on "US dual citizenship law"
>reproduced verbatim below *****
>
>Replying to:
>
> > Neither I nor my wife are US citizens. However, we are
> > legally resident in the US. Our kids were born in the
> > US and hold US passports. Our home country does not
> > allow dual citizenship. If we decided to return to our
> > home country for good, we may have to renounce the kids'
> > US citizenship. Later, as adults, can the kids reclaim
> > their citizenship on the basis of their birth certificates?
>
>Short answer: Yes.
>
>Longer answer:
>
>My understanding is that the US, bluntly speaking, doesn't care whether
>your home country allows dual citizenship or not. As far as US law is
>concerned, your children have US citizenship by birth. Nothing you,
>your children (while they are still under age), or your home country's
>government might try to do can change the fact that your children are
>US citizens. If you home country disapproves of this, your home coun-
>try can "go jump in a lake" as far as the US is concerned.
>
>Even if your home country makes you "renounce" your children's US citi-
>zenship, this action would have no legal significance under US law, and
>they would still be US citizens. In particular, if your home country
>demands that you contact US consular officials and arrange to have your
>children's US citizenship revoked, my understanding is that US
>officials
>will adamantly refuse to cooperate with you, on the grounds that US law
>does not allow them to do so.
>
>Note, too, that if you wanted to return to the US as a family later on
>(after having moved back to your home country), your children would
>not be able to get any sort of US visas in their non-US passports. US
>consular officials will insist that the children are US citizens, that
>they do not need (and indeed are not eligible to get) immigrant or non-
>immigrant visas for the US, and that if they are going to enter the US,
>they must do so via US passports -- regardless of whether your home
>country approves of this or not.
>
>Since your children would never have lost their US citizenship on
>account of anything you might have said or done when they were little,
>they would presumably be able to reassert it at any time. Of course,
>if they do this as adults, this may have adverse implications on their
>legal rights vis-a-vis your home country, but that's another matter
>altogether.
>
>Now, I should mention that there is a provision in the US passport
>rules
>that says a child under age 12 with both US and other citizenship may
>legally enter the US without a US passport if (1) he/she is listed as
>a dependent child in a parent's foreign passport, and (2) some other
>evidence of the child's US citizenship is available to show to US immi-
>gration officials (e.g., the child's birth certificate showing he/she
>was born in the US). However, this rule may not help you in practice,
>because some airlines are not willing to take the risk of transporting
>people under such circumstances (in case the traveller's documentation
>were not accepted by US officials and the airline were forced to take
>him/her back). I have been told, for example, that families from India
>with US-born children, attempting to fly Lufthansa to the US, have been
>refused boarding with this sort of documentation (even though it is
>permitted under US law) and have been forced to make emergency trips
>to US consulates to get US passports for their children.
>
>You might want to investigate the possibility of getting your children
>some sort of alternative documentation from your home country, which
>would allow them to return to live there with you, but without getting
>into the citizenship issue. For example, if you are from India, I
>understand there is a document called "Person of Indian Origin", which
>basically confers the right to live and work in India (but not to vote
>or hold public office). I've heard that some Indian parents of US-born
>children have sidestepped the dual US-Indian citizenship problem when
>returning "permanently" to India by getting POI certificates for the
>kids instead of trying to get them Indian passports. The major
>downside
>is that a POI card reportedly costs about $1,000. If you aren't from
>India, you'd have to do some research and find out if a similar sort of
>document is available for your children.
>
>In any case, you would probably be wise to discuss this issue carefully
>with a lawyer who is familiar with your home country's citizenship and
>immigration laws. An American immigration lawyer who specializes in
>dealing with people from your home country might be able to help; or,
>you could talk with a lawyer in your home country. I would especially
>recommend discussing your situation with a lawyer if it turns out that
>your home country intransigently insists that your children cannot
>enter
>its territory unless they (1) have passports from your home country and
>(2) do NOT have passports from the US or any other country.
>
>Rich Wales richw@webcom.com
>http://www.webcom.com/richw/
>*Dual Citizenship FAQ -- http://www.webcom.com/richw/dualcit/
>*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
> or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
> are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.
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